Safeguarding podcast – The UN CRC, SDGs & VNRs with UN SRSG on Violence Against Children Najat Maalla M’jid

By Neil Fairbrother

In this safeguarding podcast we discuss with Special Representative of the UN Secretary General on Violence Against Children, Najat Maalla M’jid, the UN CRC, what it is and the 4 under-pinning General Principles, the Optional Protocols, the Sustainable Development Goals especially SDG16, and the impact of COVID on meeting the 2030 targets. Also, VNRs, what they are and what’s missing to make them really effective.

https://traffic.libsyn.com/secure/safetonetfoundation/SafeToNet_Foundation_Podcast_-_The_UN_CRC_SDGs__VNRs_with_UN_SRSG_VAC_Najat_Maalla_Mjid.mp3

There’s a lightly edited transcript below for those that can’t use podcasts, or for those that simply prefer to read.

Neil Fairbrother

Welcome to another edition of the SafeToNet Foundation’s safeguarding podcast, hosted by me Neil Fairbrother, where we talk about all things to do with safeguarding children in the online digital context.

Safeguarding children in the online digital context is at the intersection of technology, law and ethics and culture and it encompasses all stakeholders between the child using a smartphone and the content or person online that they are interacting with.

In many ways, it would be useful if we had a global government, which could create and enforce global standards, best practices, and even legislation. We don’t of course have a global government, but there is one organization that is as close as we can get to one and that’s the United Nations, which this year 2020 is celebrating its 75th anniversary. To help us understand their role in ending all forms of child abuse, including online, I’m joined by the Special Representative of the UN Secretary General on Violence Against Children, Najat Maalla M’jid.

Neil Fairbrother

Welcome to the podcast. Najat could you please provide us with a brief resumé so our listeners from around the world have an appreciation for your background?

UN SRSG VAC Najat Maalla M’jid

Okay. I’ll try to do it very short. I was nominated as special representative of the UN Secretary General on Violence Against Children since past July. It’s almost one year. I am a paediatrician from Morocco and I am a grandmother and I am very proud of this.

I was in my country a child rights activist, and also I created one big NGO since 30 years ago. And really, that was dealing with all the issues related to child protection; child sexual exploitation, sexual you know, online and offline, the most vulnerable children, child labour, children on streets, migrant and so on. And from 2008 to 2014, I was also Special Rapporteur of the Human Rights Council on sale of children, child prostitution, and child pornography to make it very short and this is my main background.

Neil Fairbrother

Okay. Well, thank you for that Najat. Now let’s start with some basics. What exactly is the UN? I mentioned the global government, which are not quite, but your sort of heading in that direction. What is the United Nations? How would you describe it?

UN SRSG VAC Najat Maalla M’jid

My God, I am not sure that I will be successful in this exam! I think it is the United Nations, as you know, is really kind of establishing a kind of global governance, including State members, including UN agencies and mechanisms that are independent to make sure that really human rights are really duly implemented in close cooperation with States and with civil society organization with other academics, private sector and so on.

And this year, as you were highlighting at a beginning, it’s the 75th anniversary of the creation of United Nations and it is about multi-lateralism because you have two big blocks. You have here in New York where I am currently, and you have here, it’s more about, you know, more about multi-lateralism and you have also the Human Rights Council in Geneva and the High Commission of Human Rights, more and more involved, you know, in following all the problems of implementing and monitoring human rights.

It’s not easy to describe, but what is important really to keep in mind is that all these mechanisms that it’s very difficult to really, to list all of them. But what is important that you have many, many mechanisms that are related also to some big resolutions from the Council of Security, from the General Assembly or from the Human Rights Council.

And you have all these UN agencies like UNICEF, UNESCO, IOM, and many who are in the same time at headquarter playing the role of advocacy, but also at regional and country level and also at implementing level, really helping supporting States in close cooperation with other stakeholders.

With regard to my mandate that was established 10 years ago, more than 10 years ago. It was after, if you remember this global study on violence against children that was done by Sergio Pinheiro and launched in 2006 and in the resolution to make sure that the recommendation of this global study to end all forms of violence against children in all settings online and offline, it was decided to establish this mandate.

And the first Special Representative was Martha Santos Pais during almost 10 years. And I took this position last year on last July. The main goal is really, we are a kind of global advocate and independent advocate to make sure that preventing and ending all forms of violence really are taking into account duly by state members. But in the same time, you know, also that we have the SDG agenda for developments. We have some SDG, some that are really related directly to violence against children, and the others also are related to preventing violence against children. And we also play a big role through my mandate in also making sure that States are going to keep their promise of ending all forms of violence by 2030. I tried to make it short!

Neil Fairbrother

Thank you for that brief summary. Now we’ll come onto the SDGs, the Sustainable Development Goals in a short while, but I would like to just talk a little bit at first about the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child, the UN CRC, which celebrated its 30th anniversary last year. And there are currently I think, 196 countries that are party to the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child, including every member of the United Nations, except the United States. Why is this? Why hasn’t the USA ratified the UN CRC?

UN SRSG VAC Najat Maalla M’jid

You know, it’s a very difficult response because, you know, when I was Special Rapporteur on the Sale of Children and Child Sexual Exploitation, I did the country visit in USA. It was on 2009 or 2010. And the one main question, why they didn’t ratify? You have kind of within the system here and also within civil society, academics and child rights activists that are pushing [for ratification].

But it seems it’s not only a problem at political level, but it’s a problem also at societal level regarding mainly, you know, the fact that you have this big civil rights and political rights for children, and that in the fact that they are free regarding access to religion or having, you know, right to expression. And this really makes them have this kind of sphere, family sphere which is very, very private and they don’t want to have a kind of insurance.

This is what I heard, but I think also we need maybe to strengthen more and to mobilize more, you know, here within UN to make sure that they are going to ratify, but I’m not sure because currently you see also that you have a big push back regarding more widely human rights in this country, including children’s rights.

Neil Fairbrother

Okay. Now we don’t have time to go through the whole of the convention, unfortunately, but there are four Articles in the convention which are seen as special and which are known as the General Principles as they help to interpret and underpin all the other articles and so on. And they are Article 2, which is “non-discrimination”, Article 3, “the best interest of the child”, Article 6, “the right to life, survival and development”, and Article 12, “the right to be heard”.

I wonder if you could briefly explore some of these, so Article 2 “non-discrimination”, it’s almost self-explanatory, but what exactly is meant by that?

UN SRSG VAC Najat Maalla M’jid

In a practical way, what it means is that all children really have to be treated with the same approach. It’s about equality. It’s about equity. It’s about making sure that the most vulnerable children and what does it mean? Girls, in some countries, you know, disabled children, children in detention, children from minorities, LGBTQ, all these children really are to be seen as equal and have equal access to their rights. This is very important to keep in mind and at the same time it’s linked also to the SDGs that no one is left behind. That means also no child is left behind. This is very important to make sure that the most vulnerable children and the most forgotten and invisible children become visible.

Neil Fairbrother

Okay. Article 3, the best interest of the child. Again, that’s almost self-explanatory but what do you think that means?

UN SRSG VAC Najat Maalla M’jid

The best interest is when you are going to take a decision, I think it could be all the drafting, you know, legislation or policy or strategy or planning or so on, it’s very important to make sure that what you are doing is really taking into account the best interest [of the child].

What does it mean? That shows that what you are going to do, or the decision you are going to take is not going to harm children. This is one. At the same time it’s really making sure that you are not going to discriminate against any children because of his race, sex and so on. You make sure that the decisions you are going to take, all the legislations you are going to establish, to draft, really take into account that the welfare, the protection and the development [of children] are taken into account, to make sure all these points are really taken into account. This is very important.

And just to remind you very strongly that these four principles are interlinked. And also all the Articles of CRC are interlinked The rights are not you know, divisible. They are indivisible and you need to implement all of them because it’s very, very important.

Neil Fairbrother

Yes, indeed. Article 6, the third of the four General Principles is the right to life, survival and development. What is meant by that?

UN SRSG VAC Najat Maalla M’jid

This is meaning all because, you know, you’re now speaking about right to life, development and survival. It means first the right to be alive, because it’s related also to what is going on currently in all these conflict areas, in many things. So really to make sure that you are not going to kill this one. At the same time to ensure that all children will have equal access since their beginning, once a woman is pregnant until 18 years, this is very important to ensure that children have access to education, to health, to nutrition, to protection, to make sure that they will thrive. And they will have all the potential, full potential, to really have a kind of harmonious development, physical, mental, psychological, cultural, social.

Neil Fairbrother

Okay. And the fourth and final one of the General Principles is Article 12, the right to be heard. What is meant by that?

UN SRSG VAC Najat Maalla M’jid

My preferred one! I think this is important because [of] the Convention on Children’s Rights, it’s the most comprehensive one. Because if you remember, you see, you have all these rights; civil, political social, economic, cultural rights. And at the same time, you’ll have some specific rights. I think what is important is that children are seen as the rights holder and they are seen also as part of all the decisions that are making for them or, you know, for more widely children.

And the right to be heard means not only having this kind of one shot listening to them once and then forgetting them for a long time, it’s really to have access to information that it’s appropriate and easily accessible. It means also being involved in all the consultation process when you are States or drafting policies, legislation, and so on. It is also regarding, you know, all the judicial proceedings to make sure that the decisions that are going to be taking into account are duly informed, and also the you know, the opinion and views of children are taken into account.

And it means also that we are accountable to children because when you hear them, when you listen to them and you take some decision, it’s important also to explain why you take that or not. And I think the four [General Principles] are cross cutting rights, and this is huge, huge, huge. And currently because of a line to make a link, you have many children currently who are expressing themselves on social media, not waiting for the older. And I think it’s more and more important really to start seeing children as part of solution and to have a system to make sure that child participation, as we understand it is really established.

Neil Fairbrother

Okay. Now you said in your introduction to, or your resumes that you previously served as the UN Special Rapporteur on the Sale of Children, Child Prostitution and Child Pornography which is covered by something known as the Second Optional Protocol. What are the Optional Protocols and why are they optional?

UN SRSG VAC Najat Maalla M’jid

You have three Optional Protocols. You have the Optional Protocol to CRC on Children in Armed Conflict, and you have the Optional Protocol on Sale of Children and Child Sexual Exploitation. Just to remind you that they were established 20 years ago, these two, and you have the other third protocol that is more recent at approximately five years, is related to the Procedure of Communication.

And what are these protocols? I think these Optional Protocols were established to strengthen some Articles of the CRC. The first one on Children in Armed Conflict, because you have an increase in worldwide conflict where children are really victims or are killed and more and more enrolled as child soldiers.

The other one that is more related to what we’re discussing today is the Optional Protocol on Sale of Children and Child Prostitution, and Child Pornography. And I think it’s really important because also it’s related really to sale of children for various purposes, including sexual [abuse], child slavery, transfer of organs, you know, illegal adoption.

And the other point is regarding all child sexual exploitation. You know that currently we call it child sexual abuse material and I think it’s important because currently it was reviewed in the title and the content, because currently we see more and more forms of violence online, forms of sexual violence online, and you have child sexual abuse material, you’ll have live streaming and extortion, you have grooming and look because you have this increasing of use of technologies by children.

And the last one that is more recent is related to the Procedure of Communication. What does it mean? It means also that within the CRC committee, you have a mechanism that allows children or the caregivers really, to complain or to report on some violation of their rights, when at national level, there are no domestic remedies, or maybe they were not happy with the results of domestic remedies. And I think it’s really useful and very important because at the same time, this protocol is strengthening, you know, and pushing States to establish child abuse and child sensitive reporting counselling and complaint mechanism. And at the same time to allow a better monitoring of violation of human rights, children’s rights at more global level.

Neil Fairbrother

Okay, thank you for that explanation. Now we’re currently living through the COVID-19 pandemic with many countries still in lockdown, some are just emerging from it as we are indeed in the UK. And you’ve recently said in a press release that at a time of lockdowns and isolation at home and elsewhere, children are at a greater risk of experiencing violence and exploitation as well as challenges to their mental health. And this is especially true of those who are already in vulnerable situations who must not be left behind. In what way are children facing increased risk Najat?

UN SRSG VAC Najat Maalla M’jid

Regarding the lockdown and the response to pandemic COVID. And you know, that schools were locked down, child protection services were locked down in many, many, many, many States. The hotlines were disrupted and, you know, children who are confined in their home and sometimes in institutions they were at most at risk to be victims of violence, domestic violence when they are living in abuse family, or maybe experiencing and witnessing domestic violence.

And you the other big point is the connection, because the increasing reliance of children on online learning, socialization makes, you know, children more and more connected. And all predators and offenders worldwide have more easy access to children and really to distribute child sexual abuse, to have kind of grooming, but in the same time, also, it allows also an increasing sort of cyberbullying.

Also we recently saw that you have also all these radicalization groups and, you know, advocates for this radicalization. They are also using this channel to enroll, to recruit. And I think this is very, very important. I am happy to tell you that just yesterday, I was in the press conference also of the launch of the revised ITU guidelines, really to make sure that child protection online is really stronger because we need that.

Neil Fairbrother

Yes. So we’ll come on to the ITU guidelines in a moment or two. Now in 2015 all of the member States adopted the 2030 Agenda for Sustainable Development, and we’ve already mentioned the SDGs, the Sustainable Development Goals in this interview. The 2030 Agenda is described as “a blueprint for peace and prosperity for people and the planet”. What is this blueprint? How does it work?

UN SRSG VAC Najat Maalla M’jid

You know, the Agenda 2030 in the beginning, when it started, I was part of the process to make sure that also children are being taught, and yes, it’s about sustainable development, but based on a human rights approach and human development. To build peace, just, inclusive peaceful societies, it’s really important regarding all these 17 SDGs.

What is important really it’s, you cannot build peaceful, inclusive just societies, if you really are not tackling all the inequalities and also to make sure that regarding children, you are dealing with all the SDGs, because you have really SDGs related to poverty, to hunger, to education, to health discrimination, to climate, to organization you know, to energy, to partnership. And some are more specific, mainly SDG16 regarding justice.

And we have to understand justice not only as penal or civil justice, but also at social justice, economic justice, cultural justice, to make sure that we are really pushing and supporting States worldwide to make this a sustainable world and sustainable cities, societies. We need to establish that it’s based on rule of law, of social justice and accountability.

Neil Fairbrother

Yes. The 17 Sustainable Development Goals are very comprehensive, and each of them has got a number of subsections, for example, SDG 16 which you just mentioned, Peace, Justice, and Strong institutions, that itself has 12 targets with 23 indicators. So it seems like a very complicated set of proposals. How has it being monitored?

UN SRSG VAC Najat Maalla M’jid

This is very difficult, really, very frankly, because you know, that States are presenting each year. You have a group of States that present their Voluntary National Review (VNR). And we are working very closely [with them]. What does it mean is the VNR?

The VNR is a kind of report that was done by the State in close cooperation with their stakeholders, showing what progress was made. But the main point regarding, you know, when we discuss, and we come to 16.2, but you have also the other within 5 regarding Harmful Practices within, you know, Child Labour, regarding the other related to Discrimination, regarding also the other related to Education, safe education. You have many SDGs that are released.

I come back to the indicators and it’s really, I totally agree with you. It’s not very easy because one of the main problems when we are dealing mostly regarding violence against children, all forms of violence against children, we know that’s a big issue that we have not really strong data collection system at national level.

This is a main big point, because many countries have not strong system of collecting assessing data. Although you have the problem of births registration in many countries and just to let you know, and you know better than me, is that these crimes are under reported and under prosecuted due to a failure of justice, access to justice, due also to a lack of a reporting mechanism, but also due to a kind of taboo and cultural resistance.

What we are doing currently, just to let you know, we will have during the high level political forum, when we are going to discuss [at] the beginning of July with States all this implementation of SDGs we did with UNICEF and with some States members and civic society, VNR lab, and also to really stress and to focus on how we can follow and make this tracking progress and challenges [more effective].

And currently you have also within the UN what we call the UN Regional Commission in each region that is working very closely with the UN country team, including my mechanism also, and with State members to have also specific indicators that could help really to follow better.

But the main point when we come back to violence against children online and offline, we know that we have a big, big problem of really having data in many, many countries. That is why currently we are pushing to have this survey to strengthen this collection of data, to make sure that we know what is going on.

And you know better than me, is that the most difficult to reach is children. Children are not taking into account because they are vulnerable, because they are in remote areas, because they are belonging to minorities and these forgotten and invisible children, it’s very difficult to reach them. But we are pushing also States to tell, okay, wonderful, you are doing some promising practices, but you need also to assess their impact, and to do that you need to have a kind of baseline and to see what is going on.

Neil Fairbrother

Yes. Okay. Now target 16.2, I think in particular speaks to your area of key focus as the target of 16.2 is to end abuse, exploitation, trafficking, and all forms of violence against and torture of children. And there are three indicators here against which progress can be measured. And one of them in particular 16.2.3 says that one of the measures is the proportion of young women and men aged 18 to 29, who experienced sexual violence by the age of 18, in other words, while they were still children. But there is no reference to the online context in any of these. Should there be a specific reference to online because it is such a growing problem?

UN SRSG VAC Najat Maalla M’jid

We discussed this point since, you know, it was established, but what is important is how you define and this, regarding the VNR, what should they define, what is the definition, practical definition of violence, sexual violence? And here it’s important because it’s clearly established within States and within civil society and within UN systems that when we are speaking about sexual violence, it’s online and offline. I totally agree with you.

I did contribute it and before the confinement [lockdown] and the main problem also, in many, many States, and in many countries, they are really kind of you know, dealing with sexual violence in a classical way. I don’t enjoy this word, but putting also all what is related to protection online as having a kind of additional plan of action. And my big fight, and my big mobilization, is to continue telling that online and offline, there is a continuum between themselves and we need to embed to make sure that these forms are really taking into account in all the strategies and plan implemented.

And within the UN Country Team in many places and UN regional level and civil society, and within the UN mechanism, we are really putting and pushing really to make sure that this online is covered. And just to let you know, I am Chairing the UN interagency working group on ending violence and children, and you have all the mechanisms that are present, and also all the agencies from UN including ITU currently.

Neil Fairbrother

Okay. Now 2030 is only 10 years away and ending all forms of violence against children by then, seems like an ambitious goal. But you do have a strategy to help us get there. And in the strategy document, there are six guiding principles and approaches, and the first is Child Rights, as we’ve already discussed at least to some extent, but the second one is Lifecycle Approach. What do you mean by the Lifecycle Approach?

UN SRSG VAC Najat Maalla M’jid

This is also important because I am physician and paediatrician. I think it’s important because you know, it’s from zero to 18 years and we need to make sure that all the stages of development of children are taking into account. Early childhood, you know, when they are toddlers, when they are pre-adolescent and when they are adolescent and when they are pre-adults, because the responses are not the same.

And we know as paediatricians that you have two big phases that are very important to ensure the development and to make sure that you are not going… because you know better than me that living in a new kind of violent environment or not really empowering environment at early childhood and during adolescence, these are very, because of all this transition, physical, physiological and biological transition, it’s very, very important to start very soon.

And we know also that violence against children harms mental health, and when it’s not very well done, mainly in the first thousand days of children’s life, you know, it’s impacting the brain and brain development and you could have many, many big consequences on the behaviour of children, but also on his, you know, productivity and also regarding impact on his schooling performance, but more widely on the whole society. And also why, because if you don’t deal with violence and prevent it before, you are going to have perpetuate to kind of cycle of intergenerational violence, this is very important.

Neil Fairbrother

Okay. You also have as a principle, the third principle in your six point strategy, is inclusivity. What do you mean by that?

UN SRSG VAC Najat Maalla M’jid

It’s related to non-discrimination, to make sure that all children, to make sure that the representativity of children takes into account cultural specificity, but also the context, but mainly, mainly to make sure you have all children, you have children living in a remote areas, children living in institutions, in jail, in detention, on streets, refugee, migrant. The list is very long and to make sure that these children are not forgotten.

When we are doing our advocacy during my country visit, I went in the regional meeting regarding also the data collection to make sure that the children are targeted, but also regarding all child participation and to amplify their voice, and to make sure that their voices are heard.

Neil Fairbrother

Okay. the fourth guiding principle you have is gender sensitivity. What do you mean by gender here? Because this is…

UN SRSG VAC Najat Maalla M’jid

This is a big, big question currently, because definition become..

Neil Fairbrother

Yes, it’s more complex than just male or female…

UN SRSG VAC Najat Maalla M’jid

Yes. It’s more complex than that and it makes many States not very happy with that. But anyway, I think when we’re speaking about gender, it’s not only about girls, it’s girls, boys, and all the big, you know, LGBTQA to make sure that these are taken into account.

I think these principles are cross-cutting, and it’s not only to have a dedicated report or a dedicated action for that, but to make sure that in our work and also in the policies established program at country level, they are already included to avoid this, you know, continuing separation between us. Because for me, they are part of the system and it’s very important to stop the stigmatization and stop all, you know, all this discrimination. This is why all these principles are cross-cutting in our work. And it’s [in] our DNA because it’s based on the CRC, as you were highlighting at a beginning on the four principles.

Neil Fairbrother

Okay. Now your fifth guiding principle is one of participation. Is this participation by children?

UN SRSG VAC Najat Maalla M’jid

Yes. Yes. This is important. What we highlight in the principle, you know, founding principle, but also in my strategy it’s one of the big cross-cutting, you know, priorities, because since I arrived here and as I was stressing at the beginning, I think we need to make sure that children are seen as part of solution online and offline.

And just to let you know that currently we launch with civil society organizations, with UN agencies, in various parts of the world, what we call COVIDunder19 and it’s using social media and so on, really to hear from them regarding, you know, what’s happened during the COVID, not as only victims, but also as a recipient of services, but as actors of rights. And because we know that you had worldwide many peer to peer initiatives, you have worldwide many, many children who are really speaking up, and this is important for us to make sure that children are seen in a systematic way in all the assessments and the responses really that we establish and we, you know, try to implement or implement at country level, but also at regional and global level. It’s not an easy task, just to let you know, this is our main point.

Neil Fairbrother

Okay. And the sixth and final part of your six guiding principles is one of accountability. Who is being held accountable and what sanctions apply? Accountability implies there’ll be some kind of sanction.

UN SRSG VAC Najat Maalla M’jid

I think when we are speaking about human rights, you have the rule of law and you have rights holders and you have duty bearers. And here it’s important, if children are rights holders, one of the first duty bearers is family, it’s clearly stipulated in the Convention, but when the family is not able to do it, it’s the State.

And for me, my mandate as UN is really to make sure that the States are accountable to children. But also in my mandate, for example, I feel myself, accountable to children. This is why I really insist on having participation because I have also to be accountable to children. I am dealing with one issue that’s affecting them, and this is important. And what does it mean? I can give you an example.

We have many, many strong commitments, you know, in all this big mess, you know, when all States met, [and they say] we are committed to do, and we are going to do that and you have many slogans. But the main point, what is important for me, is to see if all these political commitments are really translated for example, into action.

And what does it mean? If you have dedicated budget, if you have a real results oriented to see if you are doing something, an action to reduce, to make sure that you have a baseline and you are going to see the impact. And at the same time to disseminate it, to disclose. This is very important to make sure that it’s done in a transparent way. And the most important things, and it’s come back to SDG 16, is to make sure that you have access to an accountability mechanism.

Because you know better than me is that violence against children and mainly some forms of violence against children on online and offline, you have a huge number of impunity, and you have lots of corruption in many States, and it’s important to have this independent and easily accessible accountability mechanisms that allow children to reach to them and their caregiver to reach to them.

And also is to see how justice is doing? How many cases? I think this is important if we need to strengthen that and to make sure that this is going to be more reported and more prosecuted. And also regarding, you know, all this is transnational because we are speaking online. It’s also the accountability of the ICT sector. And this is really important to make sure that you have many self-regulation, but they have also a big role in preventing and also in protecting children from harm online.

Neil Fairbrother

Okay. Now we are rapidly running out of time, but a couple of other quick questions. You recently published a document, “A Decade of Action” which provided some guidelines for countries preparing for their Voluntary National Review. Can you very quickly summarize what those guidelines comprise?

UN SRSG VAC Najat Maalla M’jid

What we saw, because they have many difficulties as we were discussing, what we decided after reviewing the first cycle of VNRs, and currently we are going through reviews, we saw what is missing. And discussing with States and civil society, what we decide is to have a brief guidance, technical guidance, that show really how we can, during the process of drafting the VNR, make sure that children are really involved in the process, and we explain the main steps.

We also explain that dealing with violence against children is not only about SDG 16.2. And we provide all these links, really, and interconnections between all the SDGs regarding poverty, regarding discrimination and so on because all of them are important and this is added. And it’s also how they can really highlight some promising practices.

And here is really important, what means a policy framework? What does a legal framework have to contain? What means preventive measure? What means also, you know, that the evidence base and monitoring, and also this is linked to the accountability mechanism. What means also political will? What means the budget?

This, we put all this, and it was really very useful because it allows also States, when they are reporting, to make sure that this is a kind of win-win. How they can show also their promising practices. This is very important also to have a kind of win-win approach with States. Some of them are doing good. Some of them have more difficulties depending on where you are, but to make sure that children are part of all these SDGs from 1 to 17.

Neil Fairbrother

Okay. Now we mentioned the ITU earlier in the interview, and they recently launched, as you rightly said, their 2020 Guidelines for Parents and Educators on Online Child Protection. And in the press release, you were quoted as saying that “…a worldwide and cross border problem requires a multi-stakeholder, multisectoral and child’s rights-centered approach that brings all the key actors, including children, together to ensure a stronger and proactive child protection online.” Who or what is the ITU and how do these guidelines fit with the UN CRC, and the Optional Protocols and the SDGs?

UN SRSG VAC Najat Maalla M’jid

Yes. Okay, fine. Regarding the revised ITU guidelines, my mandate was very powerful in reviewing it, and I think it’s really, when you read it, it’s a big document. And when you read it, it’s really based on a human rights approach and child rights approach. It’s based also on the SDGs more widely. And it’s based also on the CRC. This is very important.

And you see also, you have some tools that are dedicated to children, taking into account their age, to educators, but also to parents, caregivers, but also to policy makers, to ICT sector. And I think this is important. The main challenge will be really to have this kind of ownership with all this, because we need to have really a true convergence of actions. This is a main big point because just regarding, you know, child protection online, when you see the number of already mechanisms established by ICT sector, you have photoDNA, you have NetClean, you have virtual global taskforce… a list I am sure that you know better than me, but when you are at country level, all these things are not very well known.

And I think this is really important to make sure that we have this mapping, as you were telling in the beginning, to have this kind of repository, that’s you know, all the key actors, including law enforcement and mainly children to really have a better understanding of what is going on. But also to whom you have to report, this is really important.

And for me, the main important point currently is really to make sure that these guides and guidelines will be owned and they will be, you know, disseminated not only like that, but through really raising awareness campaigns and to make sure that they will be also embedded, you know, in the response at national and local level.

Neil Fairbrother

Okay. And the ITU, I think, is the International Telecommunications Union.

UN SRSG VAC Najat Maalla M’jid

Yeah. Sorry. I forget. Yes. It includes State members, it includes, you know, academics, it includes also representatives of technology industry. This is very important. It’s a big and huge one really having, you know, this role on digital governance. This is very important. It’s worldwide, but also having this kind of power of guidance. It’s not a regulatory body, we have to be very careful about that, but it’s pushing also to adopt and to have a kind of human rights-centered approach and the kind of governance within all the ITU sector.

Neil Fairbrother

Okay. Now we’re just a 10 years to go until 2030, will we have successfully by then eliminated all forms of violence against children?

UN SRSG VAC Najat Maalla M’jid

I am not sure. To be very frank with you, we are not on track to do it if we continue like that. And it’s my really big advocacy and message since I started, it is why I’m telling you that it’s important to accelerate all the action. And it’s possible because we collect many reaction regarding legislation, or regarding some responses done by many States in various parts. But it’s more about pieces, you know, you have not this kind of systemic approach and articulate sharing of services that allow children and their caregivers to access them.

There’s the main important thing that will make me a little bit more concerned is that before the COVID it was difficult, but currently not only with the COVID, but with the post COVID and the financial impact of the COVID on all the budgets that are going. We have a very, very big risk of cutting budgets and mainly regarding all the social with big “S” services, including child protection, child welfare, but more widely social protections that are at risk to be cut.

And also regarding, you know, when you see what’s happened during this COVID-19 response, we see that multilateralism and solidarity, and multi- cooperation was not very efficient, and this made me also having concern, because I think what is important currently, and we are pushing is really to make sure that advocating very strongly within States and within many mechanics to make sure that the financial impact is not going really to impact children and the most vulnerable people.

This is one but we are pushing more and more regarding also, you know, the international, bilateral and multilateral cooperation to make sure that not only about the donors, but also about, you know, technology sharing, expertise sharing is going to be stronger.

This is my hope. That’s my strong hope, you know, what’s making me be a little bit more optimistic that when I see, I saw, and I still see, you know, the involvement, the commitment of children worldwide I trust them. And I think regarding the fact that currently they are leading with this process and they think it’s important why I am coming back also to see children as part of the solution and the solutions that they really come with is they are more, you know, practical and more efficient that us as adults we are thinking of.

Neil Fairbrother

Okay. No, thank you so much. We’re out of time. We’re going to have to leave it there. So thank you so much. I know you have a very, very busy day and it’s been a delight to talk with you.

UN SRSG VAC Najat Maalla M’jid

Thanks so much. Bye bye.